The Lich King threatens to take over your world... You have 12 months to make your way to the underworld and defeat him before he finishes raising his army and invades the world of the living.
Author: wasilix, 12-08-2023 07:24 Like Assembling the cloak - Supremacy of the Lich King So I'm trying to assemble the cloak. You mentioned that one doesn't have to beat 70k azures to get one. I have boots and I see the necklace, but I don't see vampire's cowl anywhere. Also I don't see how I can pick up the necklace without having CoUK (closed by a guard asking for 9999 liches whereas I only have 3k from Isra). Maybe I don't see something. The underground is vast.
What am I missing?
wasilix writes:
12-08-2023 19:28
Clarification - Supremacy of the Lich King
I need it to get to purple. I don't intend to use horn or CoUK other than to get through border guards that require liches or fangarms. I have around 200k AAs on 7-1-1 and still can get some more power from dragon areas. It should be doable to win a 70k AD event, perhaps even without many losses, but you mentioned that it's not necessary. After scouring the map in the editor, I just don't see a way to assemble a cloak without having one.
Romeo P (US) writes:
12-08-2023 23:28
Cloak - Supremacy of the Lich King
Cowl is on a hero in a prison underground protected by 4K Faerie dragons, boots and neckless are underground on the map. Neckless does require the liches, I guess that is an oversight, as there is no way to generate liches at that stage. I will add a way to convert skeletons to Liches.
Otherwise, there are 3 other cloaks you can get on the map but you have to fight 70k Azure dragons on cursed ground for each of them, which shouldn't be too hard if you can take down Dragon Lord.
Romeo P (US) writes:
12-08-2023 23:31
BTW - Supremacy of the Lich King
By the way, if you can't easily take down the Azure dragons, you are not ready to go up against the purple so I would focus on building up your armies by taking advantage of guest guards, pandora box etc.
wasilix writes:
12-08-2023 23:53
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
70k on cursed ground or aa-garrison might be quite different from purple heroes if those don't prevent from casting spells and resurrecting. 70k issue is winning without losses and resurrects.
That said, I actually beat them. 250k AAs was more than enough to win in 2 turns without losses.
Gotcha on the necklace liches requirement. I'd recommend maybe to make it a skellie requirement instead of adding a quest to convert. Otherwise the player may just farm skellies before getting a cloak and then convert them.
I can't find a hero with a cowl, and I can't see an imprisoned hero like that. Isra has boots, not a cowl. There are only 3 heroes in the underground, and neither Mutare nor Theodorus have it.
Author: wasilix, 08-08-2023 20:50 Like Feedback - Supremacy of the Lich King It's hard to form coherent feedback at this stage. Obviously resource-to-creature trade should go, or if you fancy it much, you could remove treasuries from Rampart castles, which would nerf this option substantially.
I didn't yet use 15k AAs per se, normally something like 2-3k is easy enough for most fights, with just a few exceptions when it's a fight on cursed ground for example.
To get to this number what I did is just traded all level 6-7 creatures into AAs, because they are simply hands down the best, and you always are better off having 1 powerful stack, than 5 stacks having 1/5 of its power (for easy enough fights you can split your stack into as many stacks as you want).
Perhaps consider lowering trade ratio by 2 or something. So that with every trade player would get half as many units as they would get now. This way it's at least something to reason about - would you rather have 4.5k AAs or 3k AAs and 3k titans. I would probably still go with AAs, but it's not an obvious choice for sure. Also as it is now, I can trade any number of AAs into any other level 7 creature whenever I decide I need it and will still be able to revert them back to AAs without losing anything. If you half the ratio, every such exchange becomes a decision that should be made rather carefully.
A few other things I noted during my playthrough:
1. 146:134 - no landing spot from rust dragons area
2. It would be great to have a town somewhere near underground entrance to make it easier to move heroes back and forth. Even better if I could access teal player earlier. Their first town is opened on 6-1-1. If it was possible to open it earlier from outside it would solve this town issue and also would allow progressing the map without having to wait.
Right now I'm kind of boosting my armorers up to 99 all and taking trees to reach Theodorus (basically wasting my time but trying to do it somewhat efficiently :D ). Having access to a teal town would also allow simultaneously taking neutral towns in the underground because almost none of requested heroes are developed in my game to level 50 and thus can't enter the underground until I have a town there.
That's about as much of feedback as I have for you right now :)
Cheers, and thanks for the map! :)
Author: Romeo P (United States), 08-08-2023 17:21 Wasilix - Supremacy of the Lich King I don't think trading the monsters is that much of a concern.
But yeah resources to creatures was probably broken.
15k AA on its own is basically invincible with blind + master lvl clone. Although that's probably not enough to beat the purple.
I'll have to make some changes.
What would you suggest?
Author: wasilix, 08-08-2023 16:23 Like - - Supremacy of the Lich King In regards to AAs number, I haven't finished the map yet. I'm nearing the moment when teal gets unlocked (around 5-3-1), so I'm not yet very far in terms of progression, but it seems that it's possible to collect enormous amounts of them without any trouble. I'm playing a penultimate version though (July 30 or 31). Curious what exactly you did to limit their number in the last version.
In my version it's possible to convert any level 7 creature to AA, and that's what I'm doing. Also converting every level 6 to AAs. It seems that there are also repeatable quest allowing to trade resources for lvl 7 creatures (i.e., AAs), and that's OP. With 4 treasuries, I'm already nearing a moment when my money reach the limit (2bn or what's it) and I'll start buying resources for it. It will allow me to buy enormous amounts of AAs every week. Honestly, it looks like 100k by month 19 seems like rather a small number when resource-money engine kicks into a full gear. Right now I have around 15k AAs, and I would expect this number to grow many fold each 2 weeks when my bank caps out in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to make a million of AAs by month 15.
I don't remember what's the number of lvl 7 creatures 5k resources are traded for. But if I recall correctly it's 500, the conversion ratio is going to be absurd. Normally with a capped out bank you can buy 100s of thousands of resources every 2 weeks to free enough space in a bank to avoid an overflow. That would net at least 100k AAs each month, probably even more.
While creature-to-creature exchanges are not completely broken, and actually quite welcome, the resource-to-creature promises to be more broken than even HotA or CoUK.
Personally, I'd prefer any of broken options to be absent.
Author: Romeo P (US), 08-08-2023 08:28 SirLouis - Supremacy of the Lich King Nicely done. Glad you enjoyed it and were able to get all the way to the end this time.
That looks like a Crazy Army! Maybe I should take the Horn off the map. Looks too easy with it. But I like the design of the fangram area and it would not make much sense without the horn there.
How did you accumulate that many Archangels? I tried to make them harder to get than other level 7s on the last update.
Purple heroes should all have a Ring of Oblivion as well to limit shenanigans.
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 07-08-2023 02:55 This version is correct - thank you for this map :) - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo P. – this version is correct. I finished map without any freeze, without any tricks. And….. your map is beautiful, really. Please, do it again – we are waiting for such beautiful map. I finished game in 19 month, 3 week, 3 day. I was playing as a blue, my main was Solmyr. My army before last battle:
32 k Wizards
105 k Titans
8409 Fairy dragons
7583 Azure dragons
7454 Crystal dragons
2832 k Fangarms (almost 3 millions!)
104 k Archangels
Everything in his map was beautifful. Oh, maybe enemy was too passive – exactly Tant and Purple, but I think, that it is problem with AI.
Tank you Romeo P for his map :)
Stoyan (Bulgaria) writes:
08-08-2023 21:08
:) - Supremacy of the Lich King
My hero looks a little bit stronger with like 8Mil Liches :D :D :D
Romeo P (US) writes:
09-08-2023 04:48
Wasilix - Supremacy of the Lich King
Oh, you might be playing an old version of the map. I adjusted the exchange rate from level 7 and Champions to Archangels by half. You're saying 4 to 1 even? Are Archangels just by far the best creature in the game even including level 8s? Maybe I'm too biased because I love doing 0 casualty fights and Archangels make that a lot easier.
Yeah, I'll admit I never tested the resource thing but yeah if you buy all resources just before your treasury cash goes up in flame, I could see how that could be insanely broken. Treasury is mostly useless beyond that I would think with the amount of gold on the map.
The resource thing definitely is going to go in the next update this upcoming weekend.
I had designed the map when the multiple quests first came out, so I was trying out things. It could definitely work on the right map with proper scarcity and exchange ratio though. This map was made to be very generous on resources so that players could hit the ground running without spending too much time early on to build up resources.
I think the Horns and Cloak might have to go too. I dunno why I thought those two could ever be balanced in this game, they systematically ruin every map. I wanted to make this map where every single thing in the game is available.
I see most people cheesing their way through with those, which defeats the purpose. The end battles are supposed to be really hard/nigh impossible.
Anyhow, thank you so much for your continued feedback, it has been very helpful in tuning the map.
Romeo P (US) writes:
09-08-2023 04:54
Hi Stoyan - Supremacy of the Lich King
And I thought giving the Lich King like 450K Liches might be a bit much lol
That's pretty insane.
Congrats, I hope you enjoyed the map.
Would love to hear your thoughts, so that I may improve the map for other players.
Stoyan (Bulgaria) writes:
09-08-2023 19:27
About the map - Supremacy of the Lich King
Hello,
I love this type of maps where you are able to create a monster army in like 15 months of playing..
About the Rate of the map-- i will only change the amount of items around the map... too much of the same item in almost every part of the map..
About the Liches -- well it was very hard to collect all 3 pieces of the set ( I need to beat 80k Azure to get last piece).
So 10 of 10 about your creation :)
Romeo P (United States) writes:
09-08-2023 20:33
Stoyan - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yeah thats the AI. For whatever reason it tends to generate the same stuff from random artifacts. Replacing the random artifacts would be quite the task though, especially if trying to have a homogenous mix of everything.
I did put specific repeat artifacts in some of the islands, but those are not integral to the map.
It's more to be able to assemble relics to trade in the underground.
You don't need to do the 70k azure dragons on cursed grounds to get the cloak btw. It's possible to assemble it as the pieces are in strategic locations.
Author: Romeo P (US), 04-08-2023 09:43 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King I submitted another updated file.
Purple is now town locked and no longer gets Town portal. The bugs always happen when Purple enters their town so I have now removed that as a possibility completely.
I tried several other ways including removing a creature stack and reducing numbers but freezes would still happen or heroes dissapearing when entering the town.
If you feel like you need a hedge to a potential freeze I would suggest going into editor and enabling purple as human, so that you can get through a freeze if you have to.
Gulo (Xian,China) writes:
04-08-2023 10:59
Good work. - Supremacy of the Lich King
I have finished the map which added at 31-7-2023. No freeze. Amazing map, thanks for sharing.
Romeo P (United States) writes:
04-08-2023 16:27
Sweet - Supremacy of the Lich King
How did you find the balance this time? Better?
Author: Fitzi (Romania), 04-08-2023 08:54 Map Freeze - Supremacy of the Lich King On curent version maps freeze on month 12 week 3 day 2...
Lame cause this it the 3 times that i played this map.
Author: СофрониЙ, 03-08-2023 21:39 true - Supremacy of the Lich King respect mapmakers O really, Im too mapmaker, but the real truth here, thats our man not tested, never finish, never played without cheats.. :( Sorry Romeo, Man!
Like the design, like you! Cos I spend really big time, like all others.. now sets my ver. of tjis map. The map is FULL of bugs, bugs..bugs.. all kind of bugs :)))))
I need more tests and the map will be ready. If the author wants I will send him, if not, I dont care.
Sorry guys, Im really stupid bastard :)
And.. everybody still playing this stupid (30 years) game, he is stupid bastard too, like me :P ahahahah
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 03-08-2023 20:11 New version still freeze - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo P. man, new version still freeze in 12 months, when purple (exactly Voldemort) get into his own castle.
Have you ever finished your own map? I guess no. It is no respect for another players to submit a new file without testing and told us, that everything is correct. No respect for our time!! I really wanted to finished this map, because it looks like beautiful, but it is impossible to finished it because of bugs.
Please, never submit a file with a map without testing it and finished a game - another players told you, where is the problem and what did you do? You locked castles of purple to 12 months and told us, that everything is ok, because you played this game till 6 months - is this a joke? No, it is not ok. Problem is the same.
Romeo P (US) writes:
04-08-2023 05:51
SirLouis - Supremacy of the Lich King
Ok and what do you suggest to fix? none of the solutions have worked every time. I tried removing a stack, removing most armies etc same thing happens: sometimes heroes disappear, sometimes they don't, sometimes creature stacks disappear, sometimes they don't, sometimes games crash at specific junctures, sometimes they don't at all.
By the way, it's a free map that I am sharing. You best remember that and reevaluate your attitude.
Well, I assumed that most competent players would kill all purple heroes in 12 months. That's kinda the point of the map as stated in the description.
But if that is too hard, I will make it so they can't go to their town at all.
СофрониЙ writes:
04-08-2023 09:49
to many - Supremacy of the Lich King
man, there are hundreds fixes, I need 20mb text to explain :))))
But most important and simple for you: Just leave purple without town. Set different time for exploring (purple ai shouldnt meeting for exchange). And set exp (as whiting you early) there is no effect for ai exp more then 99999. These are for freezing. Other, for gameplay.. you really need playing whole map without cheats, just find 3-4 days time for detail testing, dont hurry to upload.
Romeo P (US) writes:
05-08-2023 03:54
Hey - Supremacy of the Lich King
What do you mean by "playing without cheats"?
I think you mean playing without hacks? (as in impersonating purple for a turn to get through a freeze)
Well that is the goal, the map used to not freeze in the beginning. It was too hard so I added Pandora's box with a 2.5-5% reward rate, + HotA and Cloak but that made it too easy so I beefed up the armies of the purple. That's when shit started hitting the fan.
Not leaving any purple towns will make them time out, instead I locked the castles so that only once you defeat the right hero can you access the town and I removed Town Portal access for them.
Basically, they would have to roam the map and find the location to TP or capture a town and based on how AI plays that should probably take 18-24 months.
How does setting map XP higher help the freezes? the Teal players heroes have the same XP and don't freeze at all.
Well unload the wall of text then, Help me make this map as good as it can be no?
3/4 days bro are you serious? How much time do you think I have lol?
СофрониЙ writes:
05-08-2023 22:42
:)) - Supremacy of the Lich King
If you dont have time, dont makes а maps :)
My ver, till now is super, gameplay goes nice.... first meet with TOP necro :) Awaiting second :)
You will never be good map-maker, if your attitude is unserious.. This is NOT a walk park man.. :)
Romeo P (US) writes:
06-08-2023 20:42
lolz - Supremacy of the Lich King
You're hilarious man.
Stop fronting. You are as transparent as a glass of water.
If you have constructive things to say I'm open and all for it, but otherwise if you're just trying to act cocky on the internet there is no point in engaging.
Author: Stoyan (Bulgaria), 02-08-2023 17:53 Cloak of the Undead King - Supremacy of the Lich King Hello can Cloak of the Undead King be assemble? i was able to find only 1Hello can be assemble? i was able to find only 1 piece so far and have not seen another one anywhere? piece so far and have not seen another one anywhere?
Romeo P (US) writes:
03-08-2023 05:51
Cloak of the Undead king - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes all 3 pieces are on the map. 1 is on a hero in a prison and other two are on the underground level of the map in strategic locations. There is also a way to get the assembled cloak outright. It is necessary to acquire it for a quest.
Author: wasilix, 02-08-2023 11:26 Like Pink is free month 2? - Supremacy of the Lich King Hey! I started playing the map. I think removed black dragons from Morgoth compared to the current version just to decrease a freeze chance.
I noticed that there are at least a couple of pink heroes roaming the world at least since month 2 (maybe even earlier, I don't remember if I saw them on month 1). One hero was pretty weak, but another is 70+ in stats with thousands of troops. My understanding was that orange-pink are released at later points of the game. It's not too big of a deal to me, but I thought that maybe it's not intended.
For a change started as rampart. So far the most difficult part was clearing elf pandora on 1-4-7. After that so far it's been relatively easy, although I haven't yet been fighting enemy heroes. I did get access to blue tent, and now going to get red. If I get to clear angel/titan pandoras before they do I'll probably have a humongous AA stack. Having looked at some blue/tan heroes I saw, I should be able to deal with other playable factions already. Not having an armorer is unfortunate. Planning to either take out and somehow hire Neela or/and free Mephala, but that's probably after farming out all level 7 pandoras from other players.
Romeo P (US) writes:
05-08-2023 04:07
Pink and Orange on the map - Supremacy of the Lich King
There are pink and orange heroes that are locked behind time-dependent quest guards on the map that get released progressively (there is even an event that warns when they do).
They get stronger and stronger in order of chronological appearance. They have easy-to-recognize names like "Nosey Gnome", "Greedy Glare", ...
The mainland ones have names of great corporate scandals like "N'Ron" (Enron), "Va Lee Aunt" (Valiant) or "Bee Pee" (BP).
If you see any of the latter on the map before month 5, then I must havegoofed up by moving an object I shouldn't have and please let me know.
wasilix writes:
05-08-2023 07:18
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes, I figured. There was a hole allowing access to and from pink home areas before month 5. I see that you already fixed in the last version, so it should be good.
Author: wasilix, 01-08-2023 15:55 Like - - Supremacy of the Lich King Honestly, I'm a bit puzzled with this attitude, and honestly it doesn't come across the way Софроний probably thought it would. The rant is childish and dumb. If he has a "working" version, why is he so ramped up and angry then? Finish the map and move on.
To be honest to him, he did offer a solution below, and I don't know if it was tried, but then again, if it worked for him and he was able to finish the map without freezes why care so much about it?
There is a certain degree of due diligence on part of map makers for sure and everyone is expected to test their maps before publishing, but whatever they do some bugs will still be present in a published game depending on a map's complexity and other issues. This particular bug is nearly impossible to solve reliably because so far we only had a bunch of speculations on what causes it. Fixing it in one place may still leave out some ways for it to manifest itself and without proper understanding of its nature it's nigh impossible to be certain that the map is fixed. I definitely think that it's fair for a map maker to ask players for assistance with tracking it down and I don't mind trying, although it's a long shot.
No one is forced to do that, and if Софроний isn't up for it, he's totally free to move on, but birthing all this childish rant and insults is just silly and makes only him to look bad.
Author: Romeo P (US), 01-08-2023 04:29 HI - Supremacy of the Lich King I'm not sure exactly what to make of your comment.
I never claimed to be an experienced map maker, this is my third map.
I don't know if most players can appreciate how much time goes into making a map like this and then refining it. It can take tens to hundreds of hours.
I do not have the time to test everything extensively. Instead, I think it's useful to have the community share their input to help the process of updating the map to improve it as well as solve the issues as they arise.
But yeah, if you have some suggestions on how to improve the map, I am more than open to hearing your feedback.
I'm not going to take a map file though.
Best,
Romeo
Author: СофрониЙ, 01-08-2023 01:24 Romeo, O man - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo, man, O I respect your work, but..man, there is EXP mapmaking, sure :)
Write me your mail to sent you correct and non freezing ver of this too big but too stupid map :) There is no gameplay changes, nothing special really, but there is mapmaking EXP for years, and you should learn it :)
And, man.. we do NOT have days even months for testing, testing your desire :)))
Guys! Take time to test your desires, then upload it. We are not morons, not indians, not f**king stupid testers!!!
Evgeny, man, you must set something more serious for mapsmakers.. :)
OO f**k, laste time again, and again,,,, WHY IM SO stupid Heroes 3 FAN, WHYYYYY???!!!!
Gunnar must F**K you all, REALLY.. :)
Romeo P (United States) writes:
02-08-2023 00:17
Hi - Supremacy of the Lich King
To be fair I did test the map and finish it more than once. Since I published this map I have updated it multiple times as issues were pointed out.
Can someone confirm that the current version of the map is working? I have not seen anyone point out a bug since last update. I did test several games and have not had the purple freeze so far.
I have tried my utmost to try fixes that did not involve messing with the army stacks of the purple. If issues still persist, that will be my next step.
I see several people reported apparent bugs after month 3, which I have never encountered with any version.
For me it has always been in the first 4 weeks, beyond that the purple should essentially not be moving his heroes at all. Sometimes they are waiting in a corner, sometimes in front of the quest lock on their castle, and sometimes in front of the quest lock that takes them to the portals.
I have not had the patience to go all the way to month 12-14 to see what they actually do when they can move.
By the way have any of you figured out how to get dimension door on the map?
Igor (Moscow, Russia) writes:
02-08-2023 13:41
Game crashes at 1-3-5 - Supremacy of the Lich King
The game crashes when purple takes his turn at 1-3-5.
Gulo (Xian,China) writes:
02-08-2023 17:00
No Frozen at Mouth7. - Supremacy of the Lich King
Today starts playing last vision，Now at mouth 7, no frozen, and gathering creatures to fight with Dragon Lord. When I finished map, I will upload the screenshots.
Igor (Moscow, Russia) writes:
12-08-2023 10:34
Game crashes at 1-3-5 - Supremacy of the Lich King
The game crashes when purple takes his turn at 1-3-5.
Author: Romeo P (US), 31-07-2023 03:54 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi all,
Just submitted a new file.
I tested multiple games up to month 5, no game freezes at all.
Purple seems to be mostly sticking to the plan so far.
Did not have to remove any of the armies, locked their towns, removed all their gold.
Hopefully, the freezes are gone for good. If not will have to remove some of their armies.
Author: ogogo (Lithuania), 30-07-2023 23:59 hangs - Supremacy of the Lich King 3.3.2 Gane crashes on purple turn (not responding)
Romeo P (US) writes:
31-07-2023 07:44
Odd - Supremacy of the Lich King
Can you take a screenshot of what caused the freeze? Normally the freeze happens in week two.
ogogo (Lithuania) writes:
31-07-2023 11:21
hangs - Supremacy of the Lich King
Just all hmm3 hangs on purple player move.
Windows 10 popups ".... not responded. kill or wiat..."
I can send you a save
Romeo P (United States) writes:
31-07-2023 17:14
Hi - Supremacy of the Lich King
You can load the autosave, use cheat code to reveal map, reveal enemy move and screenshot where it freezes.
ogogo (Lithuania) writes:
31-07-2023 23:49
done - Supremacy of the Lich King
ok
Author: Romeo P (US), 30-07-2023 05:32 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi,
I have just submitted the latest file (should be up in a few hours).
Rewards on the Map have been rebalanced.
A lot of fixes to resolve the issues with the purple. I have tested a few games up to month 3 and so far have not had any crashes.
Hope you enjoy the map.
wasilix writes:
30-07-2023 13:21
Thanks for the update - Supremacy of the Lich King
Hey! It seems that it's already published. I ran a few tests with it, and it seems that you may have been tricked by AI into thinking that the freeze is fixed...
Here is what I did:
1. Started as green, revealed the map, set enemy movement to be hidden (to speed up enemy turns). Skipped turns with each turn checking positions of purple players.
2. It turned out that around 1-2-1 purple players stopped picking up gold, and because of that Morgoth stopped in his tracks and never moved closer to the town. At that point purple had around 30M in the bank. It's as if AI looks at its gold as a 16bit signed integer and doesn't pick it up thinking that it will put its bank into negative. As a result the freezing hero never reaches the town in my game.
3. I reloaded in MP, brought him to this town myself, exited and reloaded back to MP but with different players picked. Immediately the game froze, presumably because he entered the town and did the same dirty thing that he was doing before.
4. Reloaded an autosave again as purple. Entered the town and left liches inside. Skipped a turn and reloaded autosave with purple as AI. Let it play for a couple of turns (no freeze this time), and reloaded as purple again. Before that I had almost 500k liches stationed in town, this time I had just 31k in hero's army and zero in town. ~450k liches vanished into nothingness and I think it's related to the army exchanges in town. Obviously it's a game bug, not a map bug. Likely AI operates with creature stacks in some cases like with 16bit signed ints making things like this possible.
Moving on though, even if it's not a map bug, we still want to make it playable :)
5. I noticed that while liches on the freezer hero vanished during #4, other heroes/towns had 100k+ unit stacks sitting thus suggesting that the glitch is conditional.
6. Another test I rolled back before leaving liches in garrison, and this time I dismissed one of his stacks (black dragons). Simply doing this fixed the freeze for me, and his army was intact (with a few caveats - see below).
Some things to note.
a. Given AI's preponderance to treat army size as 16 signed int (i.e., a max value of 32k rougly with any increase putting the size above 2^15 making the value negative instead of a bigger positive), he does very weird things at glance. Like for instance some purple heroes would leave 200k dread knights in castle as garrison, and take 79 dread knights and 130 vampires with them. Duh... Not sure how exactly h3 deals with 32bit numbers in these cases. It could be that some army sizes are still treated as big by AI, while others are treated like having negative value and thus hastily replaced with a couple of peasants. The overall AI's desire to leave even big stacks as a garrison messes up with the tests and makes the accurate judgement more difficult to make :(
b. It would make sense to disallow access to towns for purple players to avoid them splitting their forces like this. Basically leaving a huge chunk of their army for the player get a lot of experience for free eventually making the heroes themselves much easier to deal with. However, given that these heroes are released to the free world in month 13, it becomes impossible to achieve that afterwards, and they'll be visiting many towns, especiailly with TP available.
To sum up, I would making the following changes:
1. Prevent access to their own towns for purple heroes (e.g., via guards asking for some creature they don't have or via a tent that is only available in the open world).
2. Remove 1 stack from each of purple heroes to reduce the likelyhood of them leaving a powerful stack as a garrison and also to reduce the likelyhood of the freeze (needs more testing with purple and Morgoth in particular) - don't forget to remove that creature from event boosters too.
3. Optionally, reduce gold piles by at least a factor of 10 to make sure that purple heroes don't get stuck behind a pile afraid to pick it up. You already add more gold for them via daily events, you can just increase this amount if you really want. I think that likely this weird bahaviour with gold pickups may have resulted in a diversity between freeze times of different players (between week 3 and month 3), where presumably purple would need to get to month 3 to make its gold bank to look small enough for him to make a gold pickup look like a good idea to him. This should be taken into consideration when testing for freezes for sure.
4. Optionally, remove access to TP from purple (i.e., remove the shrines) to mitigate risk of it spreading its troops too thin.
5. I think the best chance to avoid AI splitting off its troops too much is to aim for him to have stack sizes in specific ranges: 28k-32767, 93k-98303, 158k-163839, etc (i.e., add 65536 to each end of a range to get a next range). You can tailor these numbers via your army boosting events. Having a stack in these ranges, I'd expect AI to estimate its power like it's a strong stack of size 28-32k without it overflowing into negatives and making AI want to replace it with a couple of peasants given an opportunity.
I wish it wasn't so complicated to deal with large creature stacks :) Perhaps there is a chance that HotA/HD-mod team responds to such an issue if we raise a ticket for them, but given that the development is mostly focused on multiplayer (or so I think), and having stacks this large isn't common I'm a bit doubtful.
I think the suggestions above give the highest chance of avoiding a freeze (at least with this particular purple hero) while keeping armies of the existing size and also gives a way to manipulate AI into not doing stupid things with its enormous armies (whether it will work remains to be seen).
Romeo P (United States) writes:
30-07-2023 19:39
Thank you for detailed analysis - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes so there is a bug in HOTA, if you accumulate too much gold at a certain point it resets to 0. That must be what is happening there. Might also be the issue with creature stacks as well.
I did as some users had suggested to quest lock access to their town in early game and clear all issues in validate map.
But you are saying the towns should be completely quest locked?
Also remove a stack for each of the ones causing game to bug?
What I find odd, is that the lich king himself rarely causes any bugs on his own even though he has the biggest armies. It's typically Morgoth.
Fixing the purple bug, is such a headache.
wasilix writes:
30-07-2023 21:03
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
I would suggest locking towns, but maybe it's not necessary. It's just a measure to make purple heroes keep their armies to themselves and not spread them across many towns.
Removing a stack seems to help with the freeze, at least in this particular case. Why I tried it at all is that I noticed over many games that AI prefers to offload 1 of 7 stacks to towns if they have all, but are much less likely to offload anything if they have fewer stacks. It helped with the freeze when he entered the town even though he still left something there. Overall that's why I'd still suggest locking towns and taking away TP from them, so that they kept their damn troops to themselves.
Romeo P (US) writes:
31-07-2023 07:45
Thanks - Supremacy of the Lich King
I tried without removing a stack, by removing the gold piles and some of the dead ends.
If it still doesn't work as planned, I'll try your advice of removing a stack/using the values you mentioned for the big stacks.
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 30-07-2023 00:45 This map is full of bugs. - Supremacy of the Lich King Sorry, but this map is full of bugs. Game still freezes during purple move.
Author: 32167, 29-07-2023 12:38 Like critical bug detected - Supremacy of the Lich King Remove the TP from purple areas. They are jumping into protected areas and doing nothing :(
Romeo P (US) writes:
30-07-2023 05:39
Critical Bug - Supremacy of the Lich King
Purple does not have access to Town Portal, Fly or Dimension Door. They get TP past month 12.
Romeo P (US) writes:
30-07-2023 05:50
Workaround - Supremacy of the Lich King
There is a way to get Fly and Dimension Door on the map. So you should still be able to win on this save.
Otherwise, wait for the file I sent to be uploaded, it has a workaround to this problem.
Thank you for pointing this issue out.
Author: Pasha Pechkin (Russian Federation), 29-07-2023 09:13 Итог - Supremacy of the Lich King Вот так это выглядит после перемещения героя к замку. Один из рабочих методов.
Author: Геннадий (Москва), 29-07-2023 08:57 Превосходство Короля-лича - Supremacy of the Lich King Я считаю, что исправления в карту должен вносить автор. Игрок должен пользоваться редактором только для информации. Иначе это рассматривается как использовании читов.
Мы лишь помогаем автору в борьбе с фризами =) Карта хороша и должна быть играбельна, а в поисках решений все методы хороши
Author: Pasha Pechkin (Russian Federation), 28-07-2023 23:45 ... - Supremacy of the Lich King Я ошибся, загрузился за багрового, ничего не пропадает, Вейдер спрятался в замок. Итог - переместил Моргота к замку пока полет нормальный.
32167 writes:
29-07-2023 01:17
избегание заморозки - Supremacy of the Lich King
Если хотите избежать заморозки точно, поставьте перед замком врата задания с возможностью пройти всем типам героев, кроме рыцаря смерти и уберите городской портал (или завалите выход с этого острова к воде совсем). После 12 4 7 этот герой получает TP, может прыгнуть в замок и заморозить игру. А Вы сюда раньше этого времени не попадете с 99,9% гарантии. Карту прошел полностью и посмотрел за поведением фиолетового.
Спасибо за ваши тесты и советы. Однако Могрот в первый день оставил стак личей в замке, а теперь затупил рядом с ним, продолжаю крутить дни.
Author: Pasha Pechkin (Russian Federation), 28-07-2023 23:33 ... - Supremacy of the Lich King У багрового происходит дурдом по наблюдениям, пропадают стаки армии,пропал Дарт Вейдер, думаю тут перебор с количеством мобов с ивентов, переместил Моргота к замку, у него на следующий день пропали личи, но пока не виснет, буду менять дни пока не надоест
Author: Pasha Pechkin (Russian Federation), 28-07-2023 21:29 Hmmm... - Supremacy of the Lich King Сталкивался с подобной проблемой, противника фризило, я изменил цвет его флагов (коричневый) на цвет другого противника (а коричневый вообще удалил с карты), в тот раз помогло на версии wog 3.58f. Не даю гарантий что сработает.
Author: Proxima (Earth), 28-07-2023 14:51 thanks for your good map - Supremacy of the Lich King It is too easy to get a lot of Arcangel, a more challege version is expected.
Romeo P (United States) writes:
28-07-2023 17:18
Balance - Supremacy of the Lich King
Hi.
Thank you for your feedback.
I will Rebalance the rewards from the map this weekend.
Proxima (Earth) writes:
29-07-2023 06:21
2 - Supremacy of the Lich King
BTW, It might be better if setup a portoal between main castle and troop upgrades area, this could save our time and make paths more clear, because the map is too big and there's so much to memorize in the aftermath
Proxima (Earth) writes:
29-07-2023 06:25
other bug - Supremacy of the Lich King
I dont get any one walking boots from map or winned battle.
Romeo P (United States) writes:
29-07-2023 06:43
"Bugs" - Supremacy of the Lich King
There is already a really good hero with great objects, skills, armies,... that has a portal that leads to an easy castle and dwellings.
Boots are not disabled and I placed some on the map. You have not looked hard enough.
Proxima (Earth) writes:
29-07-2023 06:47
3 - Supremacy of the Lich King
How about replacing humans with other races? Consider upgrading all level 7 creatures to archangels eventually, would make the whole map more challenging
Author: Геннадий (Москва), 27-07-2023 13:16 Превосходство Короля-лича - Supremacy of the Lich King Скорее всего еще никто не прошел эту карту.А тот кто пишет, что прошел, просто в редакторе сделал ее легче.
wasilix writes:
27-07-2023 14:30
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
Уверен, что чёрт не так страшен, как вы его малюете :)
Author: wasilix, 27-07-2023 10:30 Like Is 12-months deadline fixed? - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi there! Curious if player reach purple and other enemies before announced deadline? I'm concerned that I may have to skip turns too much. Would be great if their way out was closed by two parallel guards (if it's not done), where 1 is current time limit, and another one letting playable players. Could be risky to do though with 4 playable players and if this gate is relatively easily reachable it could be opened by AI early on.
Maybe some 1-way portal into their lands (provided that player is expected to have TP by that time) from a hard-to-access area?
Just my 2 cents :)
Romeo P (United States) writes:
27-07-2023 17:24
Not fixed deadline - Supremacy of the Lich King
After 12 month, the purple gets access to the rest of the map.
It is possible to reach before 12 months. Should take about 6/7 month to complete first level and most of the underground level is optional.
Author: Gulo (Xian,China), 26-07-2023 17:44 Yes - Supremacy of the Lich King Finished in mouth14.
1-First gets Archer’s Pandora box, then Monk , then with 150Angels, 4.5K Archers, 2.5kMonks ,gets three Angel Pandora’s box, and has 700Angels.
2-Taken town Star Labs， recruits Baby Yaga, he has Black Ball, then gets Jack Sparrow(Gelu) ,Dumbledote(Dracon)and Gundula(with 500Angels 83Azure). Then my hero has 1.5KAngel,10KSharpshooter,5kEnchantet at M4W1D1.
3-Very bored in remaining time.
Author: Romeo P (United States), 26-07-2023 17:19 Hi - Supremacy of the Lich King What day did you finish the map on?
There is a way to cash in on the useless artifacts as you said.
How did the 550 archangels push you over the top for the rest of the game?
Glad you enjoyed it
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