The Lich King threatens to take over your world... You have 12 months to make your way to the underworld and defeat him before he finishes raising his army and invades the world of the living.
Author: wasilix, 14-08-2023 22:56 Like Nice ideas - Supremacy of the Lich King Finally finished the map (8-2-4). Unfortunately I was playing the version before AAs rewards were nerfed.
Some very nice ideas implemented in terms of creature and artefact exchanges. Challenging start, loved the underground general layout and especially appreciate giving a good number of lighthouses and making underground mostly water. Helped a lot with logistics.
That's a very good map, but not without some things I wish were changed. It takes a lot of time (real life), especially in the underground. With all those exchange quests it's a constant logistics challenge. It's still an upside to me. Some aspects though almost made me mad. I wish number of fights in below areas was drastically reduced:
1. The fangarm area - so much to clear... Each fight takes with autocombat a few seconds, and that's a lot of fights...
2. Another annoying area was lvl7 random monsters, same thing as with fangarms, but depending on your army/hero there you may sometimes even have to fight manually depending on a monster faced and number of stacks in it.
3. Unique dragons area - biggest treasury in the game, but having to fight for every pile of gold is very time consuming... Fights are all alike and provide very little in terms of challenge. I was only clearing path to quest huts and pandoras, still had to spend a lot of time there. It would be very much welcome if you reduced number of fights in each of these by 3-5 times at least.
Other than that while the artefact and hero juggling are also consuming a lot of time these I would actually consider good map features. They offer some logistical challenge which is very needed in the underground, because fights are very easy.
Some other comments:
1. Most lvl7 creature-to-creature conversion options don't include 500, only 50 making it rather arduous to convert tens of thousands of troops, would very much like to have titans-to-AAs conversion option too. Had to convert titans to dragons or behes first.
2. Funnily enough, events for purple may trigger for a player too if not picked up by purple. Probably not much of an issue, but I was surprised when a couple of those triggered for me.
3. I haven't used liches or fangarms (neither for fighting or to trade in for dragons). Basically I used mostly AAs and later azures. In the end I had over 500k AAs and over 100k azures.
4. I haven't used any AAs off resource-to-creature trades! I had another 580k AAs sitting in a town (conversion rate was substantially nerfed in a later version). After hitting money cap player can purchase 700k gems every week which is 35k AAs weekly (after a conversion nerf). Overall number of AAs in a later versions should probably be around half of what I had.
5. I appreciate you making a game a bit harder by introducing ring of oblivion, but I'm a bit concerned about adding it for orange and pink. The player isn't yet very strong when facing them and overall I'd personally prefer some other options (like power of dragon father, blind immunity, spell suppression cloaks, etc.). Kind of worried that first 2 enemies may prove to be too much of a trouble with rings.
Liked the map, thanks for making it :)
Romeo P (US) writes:
15-08-2023 03:06
Thanks Wasilix - Supremacy of the Lich King
Thank you for the in-depth feedback.
Fangram and Level 7 clusterfuck is meant to be annoying (sorry).
The resource fights in the Dragon Islands could probably go. It has been annoying me a lot as well since the AI can't always auto-win with no losses. But those fights are not particularly challenging, so it's more tedious than anything.
For the creature exchanges, it was initially all 100>50 trades, but after taking half an hour to convert an army one time, I decided to update it, but I didn't edit everything. Will have to take care of that at some point.
So you think orange and pink are strong enough? I should have clarified that only the ones on the islands locked by a 5-month quest guard have the ring of oblivion, the ones at sea do not.
So it's only after month 5, at which point the player should have basically explored all of the upper level and have substantial armies and heroes.
For the underground, I ran out of stuff to put since the upper level has already so much going on. So about half of it is for aesthetics, filler and to give an opportunity to anyone no matter their level to finish the map by taking extra time to gather all the rewards.
If you just want to speed run, you can easily ignore most if not all of the content underground aside from what you need to do for the main storyline, which is essentially just beating the teal and getting the cloak to go on to the purple.
It has lots of "sub-plots" where you can waste a lot of time and discover more to the map than is initially apparent. I personally quite enjoy completing everything, getting all the castles, heroes, ...etc
The map probably has too much going on and levels up too fast for the underground to be completely engaging. That's definitely something I am going to keep in mind when designing future maps.
I wanted a map that lasts about a year to play through if you take the time to do everything.
Anyhow thank you for your feedback, I am going to fix some of the things you pointed out.
I hope you had a good time with the map overall and that the minor nitpicks didn't detract too much from your enjoyment.
wasilix writes:
15-08-2023 09:21
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
That's really unfortunate that fangarms and lvl7 areas are meant to be annoying! Geez Louise, they really are. I skipped all of artefact areas whereas I cleared up most of everything else.
I could've been still quite a bit faster. Having to wait for orange/pink and teal to open I didn't realize that I could bring heroes to the underground through the colored portals (area with a bunch of set artefacts and a level 60 border guard). I only noticed it after I already started dealing with teal, otherwise I'd be taking towns behind 1-way portals in month 5. Also was trying to build up my army as much as possible just as a test - definitely could've gone for purple as soon as I got a CoUK and would've deal easily with him. Possibly month 6 victory was achieveable, month 7 was definitely doable. With rings will have to bring a bigger force now, so I would expect that finish times will now be quite longer.
In regards to your ring comment about orange and pink, it makes more sense this way. Maybe it'll be ok, not sure. In my game pink was free month 2 because of a missing mountain, and I dealt with its main baddy during month 3 or 4. Definitely wouldn't be able to do that if he had a ring, but given that he shouldn't go free until month 5 maybe it would be doable.
Author: Gunnar, 13-08-2023 21:01 Great map! - Supremacy of the Lich King Finished in 13 months with the Red player.I enjoyed it and the design was interesting.Also,the map was well created and I respect the author's hard work.Someday,i will play it again with another faction.Can't wait to play your next map.
Author: Romeo P (US), 13-08-2023 19:33 New Update pending - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi all,
Just submitted a new updated file. It should be up in a couple hours.
-All pink, orange, teal and purple heroes now have Ring of Oblivion to limit the effectiveness of Horn, Cloak and Archangels.
-Horn is much harder to obtain (only one realistic way to get by obtaining the hero Danaerys)
-Added 2 ways to get 9999 Power liches to unlock the quest guard that leads to Amulet. For players that do not want to go through the 70K azure dragon fights in cursed grounds to get the cloak fully assembled.
-Fixed landings on 2 islands that were not accessible via landing.
-First teal base is now accessible before month 6, as long as you have completed the upper level.
I am very pleased that no one has reported issues with purple player bugs since the last update.
For those who are extra cautious, you can always go into the editor and enable purple as a human player, so that you may play through a purple's freeze in your save by loading the save as a multiplayer and play through the freeze.
I hope you all enjoy the map.
I am starting to work on a new map that will be based on Europe, middle east and western Russia.
Romeo P (US) writes:
13-08-2023 19:43
Altar - Supremacy of the Lich King
I also added a bunch of altars, so that it's easier to get rid of superfluous artifacts.
Although I would not recommend to get rid of any artifact that may be assembled into a relic, as there is a use for those later in the game, to exchange them for creatures.
Author: Luca Wei (Beijing，China), 13-08-2023 18:35 small bugs - Supremacy of the Lich King by the way，There's no landing site on the ground part of the Rust dragon area to the center area(145,135)，There's no landing site undergrand（116,19）from left to right，if I don't get the treasure“Horn of harvest”···
If you want to increase the difficulty, you can give purple heroes red ball, Ring of annihilation, Dragon King divine power, etc.
Author: Luca Wei (Beijing，China), 13-08-2023 18:22 impressing - Supremacy of the Lich King Thank you for your reply, each map has its own advantages and disadvantages, the common problem of all the maps made by the author so far is that there are too many meaningless roads, resources, etc. and the later period is often very easy or boring，which wastes players much time··· But I'm sure this map will stick with me for a long time, as will some of the great ones like element land, crapcore, Gelu the necromancer part2, and so on. I've been playing heroes3 for over 10 years and I've never seen an enemy with such a large army，and each enemy hero has such a perfect trigger mechanism, and there are plot hints, which makes me extremely shocked. Now that the new version fixes the purple bug and allows early attacks on orange/pink/cyan, that's great. Best wishes.
Later, I will try to use other colors to finish the map, so as to challenge faster finish. It should be possible within 8, 1, 1.
Author: Romeo P (US), 12-08-2023 23:50 Hi Luca Wei - Supremacy of the Lich King Nicely done on the early finish, you are the fastest one so far.
I guess you played an older version than the current one. The purple should no longer be bugged as far as I can tell, and the rewards from boxes have been revised significantly.
For the objects, the correct way to do it is to have a hero in each town and then use TP to dump specific artifacts so each hero builds up specific relics (that take less space in inventory). Then you take those underground to convert to creatures. There is also a junkyard in each starting point and there are altars on the map. It is kinda PITA to manage, but if you do it right it works pretty well. You can also convert redundant artifacts to other ones in the underground islands to more easily assemble relics.
I fixed access to teal in an upcoming update.
Thank you for your feedback, I'm glad you enjoyed the map. I probably won't be releasing another one for a while. It takes months usually to make one and lots of planning, inspiration and testing.
Author: Luca Wei (Beijing，China), 12-08-2023 16:16 Thanks much! - Supremacy of the Lich King highly recommend！Thanks for your map！
Finished in 10 1 7. two week's work···
very good map, except the bug of purple's freeze（may be The army is tooooooo big!）, I Opened the multiplayer game，allied with purple and solved this problem
Maximum array and army of playing heroes3 for 10+ years！
The early stage is very difficult，The emphasis is on mass access to lighthouses while keeping the pink and orange out of reach，The key is to capture 4,000 archers and 550 archangels in Pandora's Box within February
Multiline operations and resource allocation are challenging
The disadvantage of this map is underground，I have to attack cyan after 6 1 1，and there are too many meaningless monsters and treasures、Prophet's house underground.I had to sell my treasures all the time. My bags were always full!
Thanks for the map again！Looking forward to your next map！
Romeo P (United States) writes:
13-08-2023 18:43
Re - Supremacy of the Lich King
I would say it's really hard to not have anything boring for a giant 2 level map.
Most of the underground level is going to be boring aside from fighting the AI because even 70k azure dragons should be relatively easy to beat so as a map maker you are out of options to create a challenge in a map like this.
The beginning of the map would have to be much slower to build up than it is I guess.
But personally I don't like maps where you have to spend a lot of time early on in your starting point.
I like that here within a couple months you're taking on 10k faerie dragons etc
Most of the underground level is skippable if you want to go fast. I actually quite enjoyed that part. For me the boring part is after defeating the other 3
Starting point AIs, waiting for month 5. I didn't think the 5 to 6 was a problem because you would defeat pink and orange, take over their lands, then go underground. By the time you had the 8 castles there, it was a good time to attack cyan.
But I am uploading a file tonight to address that.
Cole (Denmark) writes:
21-11-2023 11:16
4,000 archers and 550 archangels in Pandora's Box - Supremacy of the Lich King
Where did you get the 4,000 archers and 550 archangels in Pandora's Box from? I cant find it.
wasilix writes:
21-11-2023 20:11
Rewards have been drastically reduced - Supremacy of the Lich King
Pandoras in starting location of Green Arrow / Orrin were initially giving modest amount of units, which since then have been sustantionally nerfed.
Cole (Denmark) writes:
21-11-2023 22:28
Units of AI - Supremacy of the Lich King
By the 2. month the AI have around 250 lvl 7 units. How? do you know?
wasilix writes:
21-11-2023 22:47
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
Don't recall what my enemies had when I played. It was a much earlier version though before rewards were nerfed and I had a very strong army myself on month 2. Maybe they were boosted, not sure. What I know is that same tactic that I used here won't work in the current version.
Author: wasilix, 12-08-2023 07:24 Like Assembling the cloak - Supremacy of the Lich King So I'm trying to assemble the cloak. You mentioned that one doesn't have to beat 70k azures to get one. I have boots and I see the necklace, but I don't see vampire's cowl anywhere. Also I don't see how I can pick up the necklace without having CoUK (closed by a guard asking for 9999 liches whereas I only have 3k from Isra). Maybe I don't see something. The underground is vast.
What am I missing?
wasilix writes:
12-08-2023 19:28
Clarification - Supremacy of the Lich King
I need it to get to purple. I don't intend to use horn or CoUK other than to get through border guards that require liches or fangarms. I have around 200k AAs on 7-1-1 and still can get some more power from dragon areas. It should be doable to win a 70k AD event, perhaps even without many losses, but you mentioned that it's not necessary. After scouring the map in the editor, I just don't see a way to assemble a cloak without having one.
Romeo P (US) writes:
12-08-2023 23:28
Cloak - Supremacy of the Lich King
Cowl is on a hero in a prison underground protected by 4K Faerie dragons, boots and neckless are underground on the map. Neckless does require the liches, I guess that is an oversight, as there is no way to generate liches at that stage. I will add a way to convert skeletons to Liches.
Otherwise, there are 3 other cloaks you can get on the map but you have to fight 70k Azure dragons on cursed ground for each of them, which shouldn't be too hard if you can take down Dragon Lord.
Romeo P (US) writes:
12-08-2023 23:31
BTW - Supremacy of the Lich King
By the way, if you can't easily take down the Azure dragons, you are not ready to go up against the purple so I would focus on building up your armies by taking advantage of guest guards, pandora box etc.
wasilix writes:
12-08-2023 23:53
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
70k on cursed ground or aa-garrison might be quite different from purple heroes if those don't prevent from casting spells and resurrecting. 70k issue is winning without losses and resurrects.
That said, I actually beat them. 250k AAs was more than enough to win in 2 turns without losses.
Gotcha on the necklace liches requirement. I'd recommend maybe to make it a skellie requirement instead of adding a quest to convert. Otherwise the player may just farm skellies before getting a cloak and then convert them.
I can't find a hero with a cowl, and I can't see an imprisoned hero like that. Isra has boots, not a cowl. There are only 3 heroes in the underground, and neither Mutare nor Theodorus have it.
Author: Stoyan (Bulgaria), 08-08-2023 21:08 :) - Supremacy of the Lich King My hero looks a little bit stronger with like 8Mil Liches :D :D :D
Author: wasilix, 08-08-2023 20:50 Like Feedback - Supremacy of the Lich King It's hard to form coherent feedback at this stage. Obviously resource-to-creature trade should go, or if you fancy it much, you could remove treasuries from Rampart castles, which would nerf this option substantially.
I didn't yet use 15k AAs per se, normally something like 2-3k is easy enough for most fights, with just a few exceptions when it's a fight on cursed ground for example.
To get to this number what I did is just traded all level 6-7 creatures into AAs, because they are simply hands down the best, and you always are better off having 1 powerful stack, than 5 stacks having 1/5 of its power (for easy enough fights you can split your stack into as many stacks as you want).
Perhaps consider lowering trade ratio by 2 or something. So that with every trade player would get half as many units as they would get now. This way it's at least something to reason about - would you rather have 4.5k AAs or 3k AAs and 3k titans. I would probably still go with AAs, but it's not an obvious choice for sure. Also as it is now, I can trade any number of AAs into any other level 7 creature whenever I decide I need it and will still be able to revert them back to AAs without losing anything. If you half the ratio, every such exchange becomes a decision that should be made rather carefully.
A few other things I noted during my playthrough:
1. 146:134 - no landing spot from rust dragons area
2. It would be great to have a town somewhere near underground entrance to make it easier to move heroes back and forth. Even better if I could access teal player earlier. Their first town is opened on 6-1-1. If it was possible to open it earlier from outside it would solve this town issue and also would allow progressing the map without having to wait.
Right now I'm kind of boosting my armorers up to 99 all and taking trees to reach Theodorus (basically wasting my time but trying to do it somewhat efficiently :D ). Having access to a teal town would also allow simultaneously taking neutral towns in the underground because almost none of requested heroes are developed in my game to level 50 and thus can't enter the underground until I have a town there.
That's about as much of feedback as I have for you right now :)
Cheers, and thanks for the map! :)
Author: Romeo P (United States), 08-08-2023 17:21 Wasilix - Supremacy of the Lich King I don't think trading the monsters is that much of a concern.
But yeah resources to creatures was probably broken.
15k AA on its own is basically invincible with blind + master lvl clone. Although that's probably not enough to beat the purple.
I'll have to make some changes.
What would you suggest?
Author: wasilix, 08-08-2023 16:23 Like - - Supremacy of the Lich King In regards to AAs number, I haven't finished the map yet. I'm nearing the moment when teal gets unlocked (around 5-3-1), so I'm not yet very far in terms of progression, but it seems that it's possible to collect enormous amounts of them without any trouble. I'm playing a penultimate version though (July 30 or 31). Curious what exactly you did to limit their number in the last version.
In my version it's possible to convert any level 7 creature to AA, and that's what I'm doing. Also converting every level 6 to AAs. It seems that there are also repeatable quest allowing to trade resources for lvl 7 creatures (i.e., AAs), and that's OP. With 4 treasuries, I'm already nearing a moment when my money reach the limit (2bn or what's it) and I'll start buying resources for it. It will allow me to buy enormous amounts of AAs every week. Honestly, it looks like 100k by month 19 seems like rather a small number when resource-money engine kicks into a full gear. Right now I have around 15k AAs, and I would expect this number to grow many fold each 2 weeks when my bank caps out in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to make a million of AAs by month 15.
I don't remember what's the number of lvl 7 creatures 5k resources are traded for. But if I recall correctly it's 500, the conversion ratio is going to be absurd. Normally with a capped out bank you can buy 100s of thousands of resources every 2 weeks to free enough space in a bank to avoid an overflow. That would net at least 100k AAs each month, probably even more.
While creature-to-creature exchanges are not completely broken, and actually quite welcome, the resource-to-creature promises to be more broken than even HotA or CoUK.
Personally, I'd prefer any of broken options to be absent.
Author: Romeo P (US), 08-08-2023 08:28 SirLouis - Supremacy of the Lich King Nicely done. Glad you enjoyed it and were able to get all the way to the end this time.
That looks like a Crazy Army! Maybe I should take the Horn off the map. Looks too easy with it. But I like the design of the fangram area and it would not make much sense without the horn there.
How did you accumulate that many Archangels? I tried to make them harder to get than other level 7s on the last update.
Purple heroes should all have a Ring of Oblivion as well to limit shenanigans.
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 07-08-2023 02:55 This version is correct - thank you for this map :) - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo P. – this version is correct. I finished map without any freeze, without any tricks. And….. your map is beautiful, really. Please, do it again – we are waiting for such beautiful map. I finished game in 19 month, 3 week, 3 day. I was playing as a blue, my main was Solmyr. My army before last battle:
32 k Wizards
105 k Titans
8409 Fairy dragons
7583 Azure dragons
7454 Crystal dragons
2832 k Fangarms (almost 3 millions!)
104 k Archangels
Everything in his map was beautifful. Oh, maybe enemy was too passive – exactly Tant and Purple, but I think, that it is problem with AI.
Tank you Romeo P for his map :)
Romeo P (US) writes:
09-08-2023 04:48
Wasilix - Supremacy of the Lich King
Oh, you might be playing an old version of the map. I adjusted the exchange rate from level 7 and Champions to Archangels by half. You're saying 4 to 1 even? Are Archangels just by far the best creature in the game even including level 8s? Maybe I'm too biased because I love doing 0 casualty fights and Archangels make that a lot easier.
Yeah, I'll admit I never tested the resource thing but yeah if you buy all resources just before your treasury cash goes up in flame, I could see how that could be insanely broken. Treasury is mostly useless beyond that I would think with the amount of gold on the map.
The resource thing definitely is going to go in the next update this upcoming weekend.
I had designed the map when the multiple quests first came out, so I was trying out things. It could definitely work on the right map with proper scarcity and exchange ratio though. This map was made to be very generous on resources so that players could hit the ground running without spending too much time early on to build up resources.
I think the Horns and Cloak might have to go too. I dunno why I thought those two could ever be balanced in this game, they systematically ruin every map. I wanted to make this map where every single thing in the game is available.
I see most people cheesing their way through with those, which defeats the purpose. The end battles are supposed to be really hard/nigh impossible.
Anyhow, thank you so much for your continued feedback, it has been very helpful in tuning the map.
Romeo P (US) writes:
09-08-2023 04:54
Hi Stoyan - Supremacy of the Lich King
And I thought giving the Lich King like 450K Liches might be a bit much lol
That's pretty insane.
Congrats, I hope you enjoyed the map.
Would love to hear your thoughts, so that I may improve the map for other players.
Stoyan (Bulgaria) writes:
09-08-2023 19:27
About the map - Supremacy of the Lich King
Hello,
I love this type of maps where you are able to create a monster army in like 15 months of playing..
About the Rate of the map-- i will only change the amount of items around the map... too much of the same item in almost every part of the map..
About the Liches -- well it was very hard to collect all 3 pieces of the set ( I need to beat 80k Azure to get last piece).
So 10 of 10 about your creation :)
Romeo P (United States) writes:
09-08-2023 20:33
Stoyan - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yeah thats the AI. For whatever reason it tends to generate the same stuff from random artifacts. Replacing the random artifacts would be quite the task though, especially if trying to have a homogenous mix of everything.
I did put specific repeat artifacts in some of the islands, but those are not integral to the map.
It's more to be able to assemble relics to trade in the underground.
You don't need to do the 70k azure dragons on cursed grounds to get the cloak btw. It's possible to assemble it as the pieces are in strategic locations.
Stefan Лазаров (България, Варна) writes:
03-02-2025 15:58
Heroes of Might and magic HOTA карта - Supremacy of the Lich King
Здравей братле:) Значи.....убих се да търся Town portal но не успявам да го намеря. Ако знаеш къде е , моля да ми кажеш
Author: Romeo P (US), 04-08-2023 09:43 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King I submitted another updated file.
Purple is now town locked and no longer gets Town portal. The bugs always happen when Purple enters their town so I have now removed that as a possibility completely.
I tried several other ways including removing a creature stack and reducing numbers but freezes would still happen or heroes dissapearing when entering the town.
If you feel like you need a hedge to a potential freeze I would suggest going into editor and enabling purple as human, so that you can get through a freeze if you have to.
Gulo (Xian,China) writes:
04-08-2023 10:59
Good work. - Supremacy of the Lich King
I have finished the map which added at 31-7-2023. No freeze. Amazing map, thanks for sharing.
Romeo P (United States) writes:
04-08-2023 16:27
Sweet - Supremacy of the Lich King
How did you find the balance this time? Better?
Author: Fitzi (Romania), 04-08-2023 08:54 Map Freeze - Supremacy of the Lich King On curent version maps freeze on month 12 week 3 day 2...
Lame cause this it the 3 times that i played this map.
Author: СофрониЙ, 03-08-2023 21:39 true - Supremacy of the Lich King respect mapmakers O really, Im too mapmaker, but the real truth here, thats our man not tested, never finish, never played without cheats.. :( Sorry Romeo, Man!
Like the design, like you! Cos I spend really big time, like all others.. now sets my ver. of tjis map. The map is FULL of bugs, bugs..bugs.. all kind of bugs :)))))
I need more tests and the map will be ready. If the author wants I will send him, if not, I dont care.
Sorry guys, Im really stupid bastard :)
And.. everybody still playing this stupid (30 years) game, he is stupid bastard too, like me :P ahahahah
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 03-08-2023 20:11 New version still freeze - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo P. man, new version still freeze in 12 months, when purple (exactly Voldemort) get into his own castle.
Have you ever finished your own map? I guess no. It is no respect for another players to submit a new file without testing and told us, that everything is correct. No respect for our time!! I really wanted to finished this map, because it looks like beautiful, but it is impossible to finished it because of bugs.
Please, never submit a file with a map without testing it and finished a game - another players told you, where is the problem and what did you do? You locked castles of purple to 12 months and told us, that everything is ok, because you played this game till 6 months - is this a joke? No, it is not ok. Problem is the same.
Romeo P (US) writes:
04-08-2023 05:51
SirLouis - Supremacy of the Lich King
Ok and what do you suggest to fix? none of the solutions have worked every time. I tried removing a stack, removing most armies etc same thing happens: sometimes heroes disappear, sometimes they don't, sometimes creature stacks disappear, sometimes they don't, sometimes games crash at specific junctures, sometimes they don't at all.
By the way, it's a free map that I am sharing. You best remember that and reevaluate your attitude.
Well, I assumed that most competent players would kill all purple heroes in 12 months. That's kinda the point of the map as stated in the description.
But if that is too hard, I will make it so they can't go to their town at all.
СофрониЙ writes:
04-08-2023 09:49
to many - Supremacy of the Lich King
man, there are hundreds fixes, I need 20mb text to explain :))))
But most important and simple for you: Just leave purple without town. Set different time for exploring (purple ai shouldnt meeting for exchange). And set exp (as whiting you early) there is no effect for ai exp more then 99999. These are for freezing. Other, for gameplay.. you really need playing whole map without cheats, just find 3-4 days time for detail testing, dont hurry to upload.
Romeo P (US) writes:
05-08-2023 03:54
Hey - Supremacy of the Lich King
What do you mean by "playing without cheats"?
I think you mean playing without hacks? (as in impersonating purple for a turn to get through a freeze)
Well that is the goal, the map used to not freeze in the beginning. It was too hard so I added Pandora's box with a 2.5-5% reward rate, + HotA and Cloak but that made it too easy so I beefed up the armies of the purple. That's when shit started hitting the fan.
Not leaving any purple towns will make them time out, instead I locked the castles so that only once you defeat the right hero can you access the town and I removed Town Portal access for them.
Basically, they would have to roam the map and find the location to TP or capture a town and based on how AI plays that should probably take 18-24 months.
How does setting map XP higher help the freezes? the Teal players heroes have the same XP and don't freeze at all.
Well unload the wall of text then, Help me make this map as good as it can be no?
3/4 days bro are you serious? How much time do you think I have lol?
СофрониЙ writes:
05-08-2023 22:42
:)) - Supremacy of the Lich King
If you dont have time, dont makes а maps :)
My ver, till now is super, gameplay goes nice.... first meet with TOP necro :) Awaiting second :)
You will never be good map-maker, if your attitude is unserious.. This is NOT a walk park man.. :)
Romeo P (US) writes:
06-08-2023 20:42
lolz - Supremacy of the Lich King
You're hilarious man.
Stop fronting. You are as transparent as a glass of water.
If you have constructive things to say I'm open and all for it, but otherwise if you're just trying to act cocky on the internet there is no point in engaging.
Author: Stoyan (Bulgaria), 02-08-2023 17:53 Cloak of the Undead King - Supremacy of the Lich King Hello can Cloak of the Undead King be assemble? i was able to find only 1Hello can be assemble? i was able to find only 1 piece so far and have not seen another one anywhere? piece so far and have not seen another one anywhere?
Romeo P (US) writes:
03-08-2023 05:51
Cloak of the Undead king - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes all 3 pieces are on the map. 1 is on a hero in a prison and other two are on the underground level of the map in strategic locations. There is also a way to get the assembled cloak outright. It is necessary to acquire it for a quest.
Author: wasilix, 02-08-2023 11:26 Like Pink is free month 2? - Supremacy of the Lich King Hey! I started playing the map. I think removed black dragons from Morgoth compared to the current version just to decrease a freeze chance.
I noticed that there are at least a couple of pink heroes roaming the world at least since month 2 (maybe even earlier, I don't remember if I saw them on month 1). One hero was pretty weak, but another is 70+ in stats with thousands of troops. My understanding was that orange-pink are released at later points of the game. It's not too big of a deal to me, but I thought that maybe it's not intended.
For a change started as rampart. So far the most difficult part was clearing elf pandora on 1-4-7. After that so far it's been relatively easy, although I haven't yet been fighting enemy heroes. I did get access to blue tent, and now going to get red. If I get to clear angel/titan pandoras before they do I'll probably have a humongous AA stack. Having looked at some blue/tan heroes I saw, I should be able to deal with other playable factions already. Not having an armorer is unfortunate. Planning to either take out and somehow hire Neela or/and free Mephala, but that's probably after farming out all level 7 pandoras from other players.
Romeo P (US) writes:
05-08-2023 04:07
Pink and Orange on the map - Supremacy of the Lich King
There are pink and orange heroes that are locked behind time-dependent quest guards on the map that get released progressively (there is even an event that warns when they do).
They get stronger and stronger in order of chronological appearance. They have easy-to-recognize names like "Nosey Gnome", "Greedy Glare", ...
The mainland ones have names of great corporate scandals like "N'Ron" (Enron), "Va Lee Aunt" (Valiant) or "Bee Pee" (BP).
If you see any of the latter on the map before month 5, then I must havegoofed up by moving an object I shouldn't have and please let me know.
wasilix writes:
05-08-2023 07:18
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes, I figured. There was a hole allowing access to and from pink home areas before month 5. I see that you already fixed in the last version, so it should be good.
Author: wasilix, 01-08-2023 15:55 Like - - Supremacy of the Lich King Honestly, I'm a bit puzzled with this attitude, and honestly it doesn't come across the way Софроний probably thought it would. The rant is childish and dumb. If he has a "working" version, why is he so ramped up and angry then? Finish the map and move on.
To be honest to him, he did offer a solution below, and I don't know if it was tried, but then again, if it worked for him and he was able to finish the map without freezes why care so much about it?
There is a certain degree of due diligence on part of map makers for sure and everyone is expected to test their maps before publishing, but whatever they do some bugs will still be present in a published game depending on a map's complexity and other issues. This particular bug is nearly impossible to solve reliably because so far we only had a bunch of speculations on what causes it. Fixing it in one place may still leave out some ways for it to manifest itself and without proper understanding of its nature it's nigh impossible to be certain that the map is fixed. I definitely think that it's fair for a map maker to ask players for assistance with tracking it down and I don't mind trying, although it's a long shot.
No one is forced to do that, and if Софроний isn't up for it, he's totally free to move on, but birthing all this childish rant and insults is just silly and makes only him to look bad.
Author: Romeo P (US), 01-08-2023 04:29 HI - Supremacy of the Lich King I'm not sure exactly what to make of your comment.
I never claimed to be an experienced map maker, this is my third map.
I don't know if most players can appreciate how much time goes into making a map like this and then refining it. It can take tens to hundreds of hours.
I do not have the time to test everything extensively. Instead, I think it's useful to have the community share their input to help the process of updating the map to improve it as well as solve the issues as they arise.
But yeah, if you have some suggestions on how to improve the map, I am more than open to hearing your feedback.
I'm not going to take a map file though.
Best,
Romeo
Author: СофрониЙ, 01-08-2023 01:24 Romeo, O man - Supremacy of the Lich King Romeo, man, O I respect your work, but..man, there is EXP mapmaking, sure :)
Write me your mail to sent you correct and non freezing ver of this too big but too stupid map :) There is no gameplay changes, nothing special really, but there is mapmaking EXP for years, and you should learn it :)
And, man.. we do NOT have days even months for testing, testing your desire :)))
Guys! Take time to test your desires, then upload it. We are not morons, not indians, not f**king stupid testers!!!
Evgeny, man, you must set something more serious for mapsmakers.. :)
OO f**k, laste time again, and again,,,, WHY IM SO stupid Heroes 3 FAN, WHYYYYY???!!!!
Gunnar must F**K you all, REALLY.. :)
Romeo P (United States) writes:
02-08-2023 00:17
Hi - Supremacy of the Lich King
To be fair I did test the map and finish it more than once. Since I published this map I have updated it multiple times as issues were pointed out.
Can someone confirm that the current version of the map is working? I have not seen anyone point out a bug since last update. I did test several games and have not had the purple freeze so far.
I have tried my utmost to try fixes that did not involve messing with the army stacks of the purple. If issues still persist, that will be my next step.
I see several people reported apparent bugs after month 3, which I have never encountered with any version.
For me it has always been in the first 4 weeks, beyond that the purple should essentially not be moving his heroes at all. Sometimes they are waiting in a corner, sometimes in front of the quest lock on their castle, and sometimes in front of the quest lock that takes them to the portals.
I have not had the patience to go all the way to month 12-14 to see what they actually do when they can move.
By the way have any of you figured out how to get dimension door on the map?
Igor (Moscow, Russia) writes:
02-08-2023 13:41
Game crashes at 1-3-5 - Supremacy of the Lich King
The game crashes when purple takes his turn at 1-3-5.
Gulo (Xian,China) writes:
02-08-2023 17:00
No Frozen at Mouth7. - Supremacy of the Lich King
Today starts playing last vision，Now at mouth 7, no frozen, and gathering creatures to fight with Dragon Lord. When I finished map, I will upload the screenshots.
Igor (Moscow, Russia) writes:
12-08-2023 10:34
Game crashes at 1-3-5 - Supremacy of the Lich King
The game crashes when purple takes his turn at 1-3-5.
Author: Romeo P (US), 31-07-2023 03:54 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi all,
Just submitted a new file.
I tested multiple games up to month 5, no game freezes at all.
Purple seems to be mostly sticking to the plan so far.
Did not have to remove any of the armies, locked their towns, removed all their gold.
Hopefully, the freezes are gone for good. If not will have to remove some of their armies.
Author: ogogo (Lithuania), 30-07-2023 23:59 hangs - Supremacy of the Lich King 3.3.2 Gane crashes on purple turn (not responding)
Romeo P (US) writes:
31-07-2023 07:44
Odd - Supremacy of the Lich King
Can you take a screenshot of what caused the freeze? Normally the freeze happens in week two.
ogogo (Lithuania) writes:
31-07-2023 11:21
hangs - Supremacy of the Lich King
Just all hmm3 hangs on purple player move.
Windows 10 popups ".... not responded. kill or wiat..."
I can send you a save
Romeo P (United States) writes:
31-07-2023 17:14
Hi - Supremacy of the Lich King
You can load the autosave, use cheat code to reveal map, reveal enemy move and screenshot where it freezes.
ogogo (Lithuania) writes:
31-07-2023 23:49
done - Supremacy of the Lich King
ok
Author: Romeo P (US), 30-07-2023 05:32 Pending Update - Supremacy of the Lich King Hi,
I have just submitted the latest file (should be up in a few hours).
Rewards on the Map have been rebalanced.
A lot of fixes to resolve the issues with the purple. I have tested a few games up to month 3 and so far have not had any crashes.
Hope you enjoy the map.
wasilix writes:
30-07-2023 13:21
Thanks for the update - Supremacy of the Lich King
Hey! It seems that it's already published. I ran a few tests with it, and it seems that you may have been tricked by AI into thinking that the freeze is fixed...
Here is what I did:
1. Started as green, revealed the map, set enemy movement to be hidden (to speed up enemy turns). Skipped turns with each turn checking positions of purple players.
2. It turned out that around 1-2-1 purple players stopped picking up gold, and because of that Morgoth stopped in his tracks and never moved closer to the town. At that point purple had around 30M in the bank. It's as if AI looks at its gold as a 16bit signed integer and doesn't pick it up thinking that it will put its bank into negative. As a result the freezing hero never reaches the town in my game.
3. I reloaded in MP, brought him to this town myself, exited and reloaded back to MP but with different players picked. Immediately the game froze, presumably because he entered the town and did the same dirty thing that he was doing before.
4. Reloaded an autosave again as purple. Entered the town and left liches inside. Skipped a turn and reloaded autosave with purple as AI. Let it play for a couple of turns (no freeze this time), and reloaded as purple again. Before that I had almost 500k liches stationed in town, this time I had just 31k in hero's army and zero in town. ~450k liches vanished into nothingness and I think it's related to the army exchanges in town. Obviously it's a game bug, not a map bug. Likely AI operates with creature stacks in some cases like with 16bit signed ints making things like this possible.
Moving on though, even if it's not a map bug, we still want to make it playable :)
5. I noticed that while liches on the freezer hero vanished during #4, other heroes/towns had 100k+ unit stacks sitting thus suggesting that the glitch is conditional.
6. Another test I rolled back before leaving liches in garrison, and this time I dismissed one of his stacks (black dragons). Simply doing this fixed the freeze for me, and his army was intact (with a few caveats - see below).
Some things to note.
a. Given AI's preponderance to treat army size as 16 signed int (i.e., a max value of 32k rougly with any increase putting the size above 2^15 making the value negative instead of a bigger positive), he does very weird things at glance. Like for instance some purple heroes would leave 200k dread knights in castle as garrison, and take 79 dread knights and 130 vampires with them. Duh... Not sure how exactly h3 deals with 32bit numbers in these cases. It could be that some army sizes are still treated as big by AI, while others are treated like having negative value and thus hastily replaced with a couple of peasants. The overall AI's desire to leave even big stacks as a garrison messes up with the tests and makes the accurate judgement more difficult to make :(
b. It would make sense to disallow access to towns for purple players to avoid them splitting their forces like this. Basically leaving a huge chunk of their army for the player get a lot of experience for free eventually making the heroes themselves much easier to deal with. However, given that these heroes are released to the free world in month 13, it becomes impossible to achieve that afterwards, and they'll be visiting many towns, especiailly with TP available.
To sum up, I would making the following changes:
1. Prevent access to their own towns for purple heroes (e.g., via guards asking for some creature they don't have or via a tent that is only available in the open world).
2. Remove 1 stack from each of purple heroes to reduce the likelyhood of them leaving a powerful stack as a garrison and also to reduce the likelyhood of the freeze (needs more testing with purple and Morgoth in particular) - don't forget to remove that creature from event boosters too.
3. Optionally, reduce gold piles by at least a factor of 10 to make sure that purple heroes don't get stuck behind a pile afraid to pick it up. You already add more gold for them via daily events, you can just increase this amount if you really want. I think that likely this weird bahaviour with gold pickups may have resulted in a diversity between freeze times of different players (between week 3 and month 3), where presumably purple would need to get to month 3 to make its gold bank to look small enough for him to make a gold pickup look like a good idea to him. This should be taken into consideration when testing for freezes for sure.
4. Optionally, remove access to TP from purple (i.e., remove the shrines) to mitigate risk of it spreading its troops too thin.
5. I think the best chance to avoid AI splitting off its troops too much is to aim for him to have stack sizes in specific ranges: 28k-32767, 93k-98303, 158k-163839, etc (i.e., add 65536 to each end of a range to get a next range). You can tailor these numbers via your army boosting events. Having a stack in these ranges, I'd expect AI to estimate its power like it's a strong stack of size 28-32k without it overflowing into negatives and making AI want to replace it with a couple of peasants given an opportunity.
I wish it wasn't so complicated to deal with large creature stacks :) Perhaps there is a chance that HotA/HD-mod team responds to such an issue if we raise a ticket for them, but given that the development is mostly focused on multiplayer (or so I think), and having stacks this large isn't common I'm a bit doubtful.
I think the suggestions above give the highest chance of avoiding a freeze (at least with this particular purple hero) while keeping armies of the existing size and also gives a way to manipulate AI into not doing stupid things with its enormous armies (whether it will work remains to be seen).
Romeo P (United States) writes:
30-07-2023 19:39
Thank you for detailed analysis - Supremacy of the Lich King
Yes so there is a bug in HOTA, if you accumulate too much gold at a certain point it resets to 0. That must be what is happening there. Might also be the issue with creature stacks as well.
I did as some users had suggested to quest lock access to their town in early game and clear all issues in validate map.
But you are saying the towns should be completely quest locked?
Also remove a stack for each of the ones causing game to bug?
What I find odd, is that the lich king himself rarely causes any bugs on his own even though he has the biggest armies. It's typically Morgoth.
Fixing the purple bug, is such a headache.
wasilix writes:
30-07-2023 21:03
- - Supremacy of the Lich King
I would suggest locking towns, but maybe it's not necessary. It's just a measure to make purple heroes keep their armies to themselves and not spread them across many towns.
Removing a stack seems to help with the freeze, at least in this particular case. Why I tried it at all is that I noticed over many games that AI prefers to offload 1 of 7 stacks to towns if they have all, but are much less likely to offload anything if they have fewer stacks. It helped with the freeze when he entered the town even though he still left something there. Overall that's why I'd still suggest locking towns and taking away TP from them, so that they kept their damn troops to themselves.
Romeo P (US) writes:
31-07-2023 07:45
Thanks - Supremacy of the Lich King
I tried without removing a stack, by removing the gold piles and some of the dead ends.
If it still doesn't work as planned, I'll try your advice of removing a stack/using the values you mentioned for the big stacks.
Author: SirLouis (Cracow, Poland), 30-07-2023 00:45 This map is full of bugs. - Supremacy of the Lich King Sorry, but this map is full of bugs. Game still freezes during purple move.
Author: 32167, 29-07-2023 12:38 Like critical bug detected - Supremacy of the Lich King Remove the TP from purple areas. They are jumping into protected areas and doing nothing :(
Romeo P (US) writes:
30-07-2023 05:39
Critical Bug - Supremacy of the Lich King
Purple does not have access to Town Portal, Fly or Dimension Door. They get TP past month 12.
Romeo P (US) writes:
30-07-2023 05:50
Workaround - Supremacy of the Lich King
There is a way to get Fly and Dimension Door on the map. So you should still be able to win on this save.
Otherwise, wait for the file I sent to be uploaded, it has a workaround to this problem.
Thank you for pointing this issue out.
Author: Pasha Pechkin (Russian Federation), 29-07-2023 09:13 Итог - Supremacy of the Lich King Вот так это выглядит после перемещения героя к замку. Один из рабочих методов.
Author: Геннадий (Москва), 29-07-2023 08:57 Превосходство Короля-лича - Supremacy of the Lich King Я считаю, что исправления в карту должен вносить автор. Игрок должен пользоваться редактором только для информации. Иначе это рассматривается как использовании читов.
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